A lovely weekend on the 24h race ended in a night on the side of a street just outside Le Mans.
The Mantis just 'gave up'. 
All electrics seemed to work OK, but I decided to check the fuses anyway. (Difficult task in the pitch dark)
Found the middle one closest to the engine to have blown.
Replaced it. (Half the boot was filled with spares 
)
But as soon as I switched the engine on, itblew again, and I never heared the buzz of the fuelpump building up pressure prior starting.
Conclusion: fuelpump fried.
Lucky for me: Footman James provided me with an excellent recovery service and I was repatriated to Belgium in no time. The car followed shortly after.
In the mean time I talked to Rory on the subject: "yes, probably the fuel pump".
Probable cause: rusting fueltank, but no problem, this could be replaced with an aluminium version for a negligible 700 P.St.
So here's the (almost) 1 million $ question :
Anybody any bright ideas of preventing the rust of getting in the pump (filters ?) or any pumps that are less susceptible to this problem ?
Is there a way to 'treat' the fueltank and prevent it from rusting ?
Any cheaper solutions for replacing the tank ?
Any other useful tips before I tackle this one ?
Fun in Le Mans
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 Mixel Del Max |
Fun in Le Mans |
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Posts: 12 Fri, 19-Jun-2009 11:34 |
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dparslow |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 673 Fri, 19-Jun-2009 12:21 Chief mechanic |
Try Car Builder Solutions or any alloy tank manfacturer, I had an alloy fuel tank built for my car, it was foam filled with sump plus other bits and pieces and it was about £200. It pays to shop around as they say, then fit a fuel filter between pump and tank if you wish, I didn`t bother with mine just kept the filter after the pump.
It`s not more power you need, it`s less weight and a few subtle mods and some not so subtle!
Last Edited By: dparslow Fri, 19-Jun-2009 12:24.
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Jack |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 1475 Fri, 19-Jun-2009 13:14 Guru mechanic |
Sorry to hear you have had a problem and hope you get it sorted soon.
Many Marcos have a small plasic pre-filter in front of the pump, you can shine a torch through this at each service to see if it is blocked. There is a tank coating procuct POR 15: http://www.frost.co.uk/how_do_i_explained.asp?hdID=3 but you still have to get the tank out and it can be a pretty messy activity. Or, always keep the tank full and use a fuel storage additive. |
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Martyn123 |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 127 Fri, 19-Jun-2009 18:58 |
Hi,
Try these people http://www.alloyracingfabrications.com/ i've had stuff from them in the past, Regards, Martyn......... |
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zeke kaval |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 2486 Fri, 19-Jun-2009 20:58 Major mechanic deity |
are you 100% sure the pump is fried? I had a short on the front of the engine loom that kept blowing the same fuse...........
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mendamantis |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 292 Sun, 21-Jun-2009 16:35 |
The fuse in question is labelled main inj battery feed 20A %**#+%. The fuel pump 20A %**#+% is the one that is nearest the pedal box and closeat to the fron of
the car, if you stand by the offside wheel the row closest to you and the farthest to the right.This fuse feeds 3 %**#+% wires. All according to the marcos
wiring diagrams.
Not quite sure what the main inj battery feed actually is. |
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Mixel Del Max |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 13 Sun, 21-Jun-2009 17:43 |
Things are never as simple as they look |
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Mixel Del Max |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 14 Tue, 23-Jun-2009 11:20 |
I found the cable that caused the fuse to blow (what a nighmare !)
Last Edited By: Mixel Del Max Tue, 23-Jun-2009 11:22.
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mendamantis |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 293 Tue, 23-Jun-2009 16:41 |
i would be surprised if it started if the imobiliser was working.
Haven't got a clue what the red led on top of the steering column is always wondered on mine but up to now its never come on. Not much help I know. Does it restart imediately and then cut out again or do you have to reset everything before it will restart. When you say ignition and fuel are cutout how do you ignition has been cut, I assume you can hear the pump. The car has 2 security systems one is the Ford key sensor unit (the key has to be next to the sensor around the ignition lock) and the laserline system which is seperate. |
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zeke kaval |
blinking | #9 | ||
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Posts: 2487 Tue, 23-Jun-2009 17:41 Major mechanic deity |
Again sounds a bit like mine where there was also a short in the ford multipin socket that sits just below the windscreen, under the dash cover & directly
behind the speedo. best thing to do is remove it and solder the respective connections together The good news is that's the only electrical shorts I've
had
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spyder |
Not to add confusion | #10 | ||
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Posts: 238 Tue, 23-Jun-2009 18:58 |
I also have had this exact same problem, but my Mantis is one of the supercharged ones so it may differ.
The fuel pump/electrics has 2 stages. Firstly, you turn the igntion on and the pump switches and primes the rails,when the cars fires the pump senses the pressure drops and cuts in and delivers fuel. It is this bit that is not working. You do need to buy a new pump. You may even have two pumps a primary and a secondary in this case replace the secondary. On the subject of rusting fuel tanks: This is caused by modern leaner burning fuel, which are far less oily and leave no coating on the tank, and especially in low mileage cars, where the tank remain 1/2 - 1/4 empty for long periods. Answer: drive it every day:)!! Replace/check the fuel filter(s) often, and don't run/keep the tank low |
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The Quiffster |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 3461 Wed, 24-Jun-2009 11:43 Administrator |
If still stuck, may be worth PMing Dave Chivers (Forum name "dchivers").
Good luck.
The Quiffster
Unregistered user?, Why not come in out of the cold? It's painless, free and opens other options up to you. Spare less than a minute of your time and register here, go on, you know it makes sense! |
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Jack |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 1478 Wed, 24-Jun-2009 18:29 Guru mechanic |
You could always try a magnetic filter - not to be confused with those "increase your fuel efficiency" magnets. They do Magnet oil filter wraps too.
http://www.filtermag.co.uk/index.htm Would be interested to know if anyone has tried these out? Does not look too useful on an old car as any muck is already in the system, but could be useful if the injectors are cleaned or the tank replaced. |
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Mixel Del Max |
Getting closer to the root cause | #13 | ||
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Posts: 15 Thu, 25-Jun-2009 13:50 |
Thanks for the tip Quiffster, I will certainly contact Dave.
In the mean time, I have found out that the LaserLine had been disconnected before, and so we are down to the standard Ford Security system only. The magic littlle glass tube is still looking good (and taped underneath the ignition because, for some reason, it was taken out of the key) The receiver (around the ignition) has 4 wires coming into it, but none carry 12 V (maybe this is a problem ?) The receiver is wired into a black box behind the speedometer which is then wired to the ECU sitting on the glove compartiment How do I find out wether any of these parts are defective (without having to try it by buying replacement parts and hope it works...) ? Oh yes, another thing. Apparently this system also needs a "red key" as a master key to restart the security system or produce additional normal keys for daily use. Unfortunately (I guess you can hear me coming) when I bought the car.... no sign of a red key.... 
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martineztop |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 1307 Sat, 27-Jun-2009 08:33 Chief mechanic |
sounds like it's turning expensive, you can get a new red key programmed but it's not cheap.
I think it may be time to call in an auto electrician to find the fault, it's probably something really simple but without the right tools you may never find it. It could even be an ecu fault. |
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 tewitt |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 53 Mon, 29-Jun-2009 15:35 |
you may be able to get a free running ecu try guy rogers 01773535638 . doesn't sound like the pats system to me souldn't
even turnover. the transceiver doesn't use 12v and easy to get replacement from scrapyards,some fords have a pressure sensor on the fuel rail which the
ecu reads and then clips the signal to the fuel pump to increase or reduce the speed of the pump,giving constant fuel pressure. the pats system works on the
neg side of the pump so checking for a live feed won't do much. maybe fuel sensor is duff, is the led for the pats or maybe engine management warning? hard
to tell much over the internet! Also the ecu normally uses a relay to turn itself on, another for the fuel pump and possibly another for the
fan so check these all function ok
Last Edited By: tewitt Mon, 29-Jun-2009 15:44.
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spyder |
Not sure but....... | #16 | ||
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Posts: 242 Mon, 29-Jun-2009 18:38 |
Red keys where never issued from Marcos or from Ford for that matter after a certain date.
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Gary Harman |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 1875 Mon, 29-Jun-2009 18:57 Guru mechanic |
I have a Red Key for my 97 Mantis, so when did they stop issueing the Red Keys???
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TC |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 4 Mon, 29-Jun-2009 21:35 |
I also have a Red Key for my '97 Mantis - more by luck than anything else!
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Mixel Del Max |
Driving me nuts | #19 | ||
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Posts: 17 Tue, 30-Jun-2009 12:54 |
Just when I thought I had solved the problem of the reoccurring short circuit, it has started again ! I fixed the part that was loose (can anybody tell me what this thing on the picture is meant for ?) but to no avail. 
Talking to local car electricians doesn't make me smile either:
My GUESS is that the short circuit has confused the ECU and the way the key is recognised as a valid one. I think I therefore need to
Wish me luck .... Only 6 weeks to get it fixed for the 50th anniversary.
Last Edited By: Mixel Del Max Tue, 30-Jun-2009 13:26.
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Gary Harman |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 1876 Tue, 30-Jun-2009 15:05 Guru mechanic |
Have a look at the MANTIS ECU section as this should help as someone has managed to read the ECU.
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